View Full Version : NASA needs giant leap over politics
JimMcDade
02-13-2011, 11:18 AM
NASA needs giant leap over politics
http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-commentary/2011/02/my_view_nasa_needs_giant_leap.html
As usual McDade's "My View" is nothing but lies.
A. How are Boeing, ULA, OSC, etc classified as "a new, but untested generation of space companies that are run by a collection of foreign and domestic entrepreneurs"
B. There are no foreign entrepreneurs, unless you call NASA using RSC Energia for Soyuz flights a foreign and domestic entrepreneurs
c. Elon Musk is a US citizen
D. Science is first at NASA, exploration is second. Read the Space Act.
e. Kennedy couldn't care less about "exploration" He just wanted to beat the Soviets.
Just another revisionist tirade
As usual McDade's "My View" is nothing but lies.
A. How are Boeing, ULA, OSC, etc classified as "a new, but untested generation of space companies that are run by a collection of foreign and domestic entrepreneurs"
B. There are no foreign entrepreneurs, unless you call NASA using RSC Energia for Soyuz flights a foreign and domestic entrepreneurs
c. Elon Musk is a US citizen
D. Science is first at NASA, exploration is second. Read the Space Act.
e. Kennedy couldn't care less about "exploration" He just wanted to beat the Soviets.
Just another revisionist tirade
Me2, other than your biased love for EELV, what do you like?
spacefan
02-17-2011, 11:41 AM
H<RR>istorically, the month of October has provided the United States with some of its more shocking jolts.
In October 1929, an unprecedented stock-market crash sent America spiraling down into that devastating era of deprivation which became known as the Great Depression. The U.S. government responded to that crisis by spending billions of dollars on a New Deal economic-revival program.
In October 2008, the U.S. stock market fell five days in a row, the worst week ever, signaling the Great Recession, from which the nation is still attempting to recover. Eight decades after the Great Depression, the government solution was spending trillions of taxpayer dollars on bailouts, economic stimuli and recovery programs that blurred the lines between capitalism and socialism. Big government always seems to respond to any crisis with big spending.
The Great depression was exacerbated by public spending cuts brought on by falling tax receipts, by taking so much money out of circulation private businesses profits fell and unemployment rose which leads to falling tax receipts. The New deal and the bailouts were intended to keep the economy rolling until growth picked up. Mcdade you wouldn't know socialism if it came up and bit you on the ass. FDR and Obama are no socialists neither was John Maynard Keynes whose theories economic stimulus is based on.
Tough economic times combined with a low level of public willingness to sacrifice for space make NASA a sitting duck for the budget ax.
Times are indeed tough and the taxpayer is right to demand value for money.
The Barack Obama administration wants to take basic Earth-orbital human space transportation services away from NASA and turn them over to a new, but untested generation of space companies that are run by a collection of foreign and domestic entrepreneurs.
COTS originated under the Bush administration so thats SpaceX and Orbital Sciences. Commercial crew Boeing, ULA and now ATK and EADS hardly untested.
That proposal raises some serious national security, political and other issues, so a stalemate with Congress has put NASA's future in limbo.
Congress and the big defense contractors are ticked off that they are losing their pork and cost+ contracts, though i fail to see what national security issues.
The arguments have ripped the space exploration advocacy community apart. Traditional aerospace contractors such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin and ATK are flagship American companies that will surely lose if NASA is compelled to pay someone like South African Internet millionaire Elon Musk's SpaceX company for launch services.
Yeah they sure have that old military industrial complex thing going on but if they cant compete they shouldn't get the business. If musk can do the same job cheaper its a no brainer.
Musk is a significant campaign contributor to U.S. political candidates -- giving 10 times more to Democrats than Republicans -- and that has raised some eyebrows in political and space industry circles.
I guess that makes him a democrat. It would be interesting to know which politicians the big defence contractors donate to.
Me2, other than your biased love for EELV, what do you like?
Not biased, Taurus and Falcon are not EELV. I will support an RLV if the flight rates warrant it.
I use to think the shuttle was the best thing ever. But I started working space transportation architectures for the USAF and also worked payload integration and saw the flaws. Also, I saw the waste of resources at MSFC. I was working CxP before the ESAS. And when ESAS came out, I saw the waste of resources that it was.
Not biased, Taurus and Falcon are not EELV. I will support an RLV if the flight rates warrant it.
I use to think the shuttle was the best thing ever. But I started working space transportation architectures for the USAF and also worked payload integration and saw the flaws. Also, I saw the waste of resources at MSFC. I was working CxP before the ESAS. And when ESAS came out, I saw the waste of resources that it was.
I guess the question is then how much does one pay to put humans into space, in correlation with safety.
Like I said in another post, the space program is in reverse gear. It's 2011, and we're still deciding how to people in LEO.
#Fail
spacefan
02-18-2011, 01:55 PM
There is always Soyuz.
No thanks! I'd rather take a slow boat to China.
klydemorris
03-14-2011, 09:02 PM
No thanks! I'd rather take a slow boat to China.
The Russians just jacked up the seat price for Soyuz once more- now it's up to $64M per seat.
That's some bargain. Bolden responded by indicating that private companies need to fill the gap. What do you think?
JimMcDade
03-31-2011, 08:40 AM
The Obama administration really opened up a can of worms when it decided to hand-off NASA program evaluation and planning to political "friendlies" who supported the '08 campaign. The policy that emerged was primarily aimed at tearing down anything associate with the "Bush" years. Sadly, the political realities of how major space projects are conceived and sustained were ignored while the ax came down on Constellation. Objectivity- on all sides concerned - is long gone.
JimMcDade
03-31-2011, 08:58 AM
Musk is a South African citizen. His mother was Canadian, so he was able to take advantage of a Canadian law that allowed his to attend college there. He transferred to the U of Pennsylvania from there. He once applied for Canadian citizenship, but he bristles when questioned about his citizenship. He attacked a NY Times reporter ( Randall Stross) who brought up his citizenship, calling her an idiot. He is overly sensitive about not being a US citizen.
spacefan
04-01-2011, 03:20 PM
Musk is a South African citizen. His mother was Canadian, so he was able to take advantage of a Canadian law that allowed his to attend college there. He transferred to the U of Pennsylvania from there. He once applied for Canadian citizenship, but he bristles when questioned about his citizenship. He attacked a NY Times reporter ( Randall Stross) who brought up his citizenship, calling her an idiot. He is overly sensitive about not being a US citizen.
Whats the deal McDade you got a problem with non americans? Does it really matter where the man was born given that the US is a nation of immigrants who made good.
klydemorris
04-02-2011, 07:28 PM
Here's what it boils dowm to- Obama, and those of his ilk (I have a brother of the exact same mind-set, perhaps because he attended the exact same colleges) are people who are embarrassed by ANYTHING thatreflects United States greatness. They avoid it like vampires avoid mirrors and they will rip whatever does it- down. To them, a towering rocket roaring into the sky that says "UNITED STATES" up the side is highly embarrassing. NASA's past accomplishments are likewise embarassing. Obama wants to strangle the glory from the US space program while he has the chance. Most of us see US astronauts forced to ride on Soyuz as a disgrace and a failure in US space policy and political planning- but to those of Obama's ilk, it is a gleeful justice. Manned spaceflight is just one of the areas where the Obama method is being used to mute symbols of United States greatness- his administration is working just as fast as they can to rip down just as much as they can. And before someone jumps on me for being an Obama hater- le'me say that frigging Bush set the stage for all of this.
Partially. Bush at least put forward a program that had goals. Even a name.
spacefan
04-04-2011, 03:19 PM
Problem is Obama gave all the money to the banks. That and funding your overseas empire has left precious little for anything else, a shame really.
Problem is Obama gave all the money to the banks. That and funding your overseas empire has left precious little for anything else, a shame really.
Overseas empire? What on earth are you talking about.
The hard truth of the matter is Obama killed a program with purpose. Don't tell me about funding, there's money available.
I can't wait till the US lands on an asteroid! What's the name of Obama's lack of vision? There is none.
Whats the deal McDade you got a problem with non americans? Does it really matter where the man was born given that the US is a nation of immigrants who made good.
Why is it that there are so many people that don't have the courtesy to address others by their first names? I can think of three as I write this.
Is that how they speak to everyone, or only those they disagree with to make a point?
To be fair, just call me Fischer for now on.
spacefan
04-05-2011, 02:15 PM
I do apologise Mr Fischer I shall henceforth address McDade as Mr McDade, your good self as Mr Fischer and Klydemorris as Mr Antboy. Now Mr Fischer as civility has been restored to this thread perhaps Mr MacDade could enlighten us as to why he raised the issue of Mr Elon Musk's nationality as a negative.
LOL!!! You forgot the period after MR . :-)
klydemorris
04-05-2011, 05:02 PM
Indeed Obama telegraphed this whole play early on in as he lied his way to the White House. He said that he planned to delay Constellation five years and "put that money into education." Well... sone folks got educated real fast and when his poles took a hit on that remark he reversed his speak- but, as he often does, took action in that direction anyway. Of course he simply lies and tells anyone who asks that he is all about US manned spaceflight. I hope every NASA contract worker who voted for this creep considers their action long and hard.
of us see US astronauts forced to ride on Soyuz as a disgrace and a failure in US space policy and political planning- but to those of Obama's ilk,
Nothing but BS
Bush caused the gap
Obama's plan is to close the gap with commercial space. Don't bother responding with CxP garbage, it was nowhere close to happening
Musk is a South African citizen. His mother was Canadian, so he was able to take advantage of a Canadian law that allowed his to attend college there. He transferred to the U of Pennsylvania from there. He once applied for Canadian citizenship, but he bristles when questioned about his citizenship. He attacked a NY Times reporter ( Randall Stross) who brought up his citizenship, calling her an idiot. He is overly sensitive about not being a US citizen.
More McDade disinformation. McDade is blatantly posting incorrect information, this is his MO. He uses lies and not facts to make his points.
Musk is a naturalized US citizen.
Partially. Bush at least put forward a program that had goals. Even a name.
meaningless gesture. The money needs to be there too.
Remember this tidbit?
http://www.spaceref.com/news/viewnews.html?id=1298
Barack was in Titusville, Florida this morning for a "Working for Change" town hall. Along with the economy, Barack talked about the need to focus on space exploration and the effect it has on Florida residents. He said...
"And we have to do more than provide short-term relief. We have to secure our long-term prosperity and strengthen America's competitiveness in the 21st century. One of the areas where we are in danger of losing our competitive edge is our space program. When I was growing up, NASA inspired the world with achievements we are still proud of. Today, we have an administration that has set ambitious goals for NASA without giving NASA the support it needs to reach them. As a result, they've had to cut back on research, and trim their programs, which means that after the Space Shuttle shuts down in 2010, we're going to have to rely on Russian spacecraft to keep us in orbit.
We cannot cede our leadership in space. That's why I will help close the gap and ensure that our space program doesn't suffer when the Shuttle goes out of service by working with Senator Bill Nelson to add at least one additional Space Shuttle flight beyond 2010; by supporting continued funding for NASA; by speeding the development of the Shuttle's successor; and by making sure that all those who work in the space industry in Florida do not lose their jobs when the Shuttle is retired - because we cannot afford to lose their expertise.
Nothing but BS
Bush caused the gap
Obama's plan is to close the gap with commercial space. Don't bother responding with CxP garbage, it was nowhere close to happening
What's the program name?
klydemorris
04-07-2011, 10:45 PM
What's the program name?
Me2 won't answer that Rick.
He tries to defend Obama on a subject that cannot be defended- thus his quip answer. NOTE that he deliberatly omitted the part where I stated that "Bush set the stage for all this." You see, that's how Me2 works- he takes a cut and paste out of full context, adds the quip of "BS" and makes himself look like he's an expert. It works well on other sites I suppose, but he has no gang of boot-licking followers here. We all know that the only BS involved here comes from Me2.
Me2 won't answer that Rick.
He tries to defend Obama on a subject that cannot be defended- thus his quip answer. NOTE that he deliberatly omitted the part where I stated that "Bush set the stage for all this." You see, that's how Me2 works- he takes a cut and paste out of full context, adds the quip of "BS" and makes himself look like he's an expert. It works well on other sites I suppose, but he has no gang of boot-licking followers here. We all know that the only BS involved here comes from Me2.
It doesn't need a name. Congress will never provide a budget that can support a lunar program.
As for the rest of the post, it shows nothing but envy from an outsider who thinks he knows something about the space program and has been shown to wrong, over and over.
How are those Ares I-X type test flights coming along?
Isn't SLS vaguely similar to some other concept so vehemently disparaged over and over on this site?
As for "gang of bootlickers", those are kind words for those people that you broke bread with. How about that I share those words with them? Your true colors came out. Nothing but a bitter person.
It might not need a name, but a name would help with the public perception of an actual program. Most anyone who is a casual space follower only knows of the intent to land on an un-identified asteroid one day. Where's Bruce Willis when you need him!
I again take issue with the "this site" diatribes. No one is forced to present a view that is contrary to what you or anyone else's is. Case in point, your posts.
klydemorris
04-11-2011, 04:39 PM
As for "gang of bootlickers", those are kind words for those people that you broke bread with. How about that I share those words with them? Your true colors came out. Nothing but a bitter person.
Ho, poor Me2... where can I begin?
I got a BIG laugh out of the PM that you left me on another site- trying to pick a fight there... where your gang hangs out, rather than here where the playing field is far more level. Uhhhh... I stopped falling for that one in the second grade. However, It is good to finally know for sure that Me2 and the bully/stalker "Jim" are indeed the same person. Speaking of breaking bread... I noticed that you ducked out of that little lunch at I-X thus demonstrating that you are indeed an anti-social [CENSORED]- which was some of the conversation at said bread-breaking BTW. And if you believe those guys are worshipers of yours... yeah... right. Hell, I was hoping you'd have been there- I was looking forward to meeting you. We'd be friends right now- seriously, I'm friends with lots of pompus blow-hards (I'm a former airline captain- remember?).
But let's get back to this thread- your part in it demonstrates one thing very clearly Me2. It is not something that I came up with, but rather something that one of those usernames that you think is a fan of yours. (Yes, I receive PMs and e-mails from folks from these sites other than yourself) He said something about you that I found profound. He said that you have a vast knowing about many, but not all aspects of spaceflight, that you could use to educate and advance the understanding of others (You know- "outsiders who think they know something about spaceflight"). But you don't use it that way, instead you are sadistic and abusive choosing to run others into the ground in order to make yourself feel superior. We see that same trend here- where you actually cut and paste out of context in order to make yourself look correct and superior. It's quite wasteful IMO.
BTW- there are only "Insiders" and "Non-insiders" in the point of view of someone like you, who desires to, somehow be a member of a highly exclusive space snob club... one that has only a single member. From where I stand, I see room for everyone, so everyone who wants to be is an "insider" simply IS an insider and all they need is for others to teach them what they want to know. Of course that takes understanding, patience and the ability to interact in a friendly way- which I would guess you do not have the time for.
Sad.
I am serioulsy considering making a new forum for Me2, called "Damn it Jim!" a nod to Star Trek. What do you think? Most of the conversation at this place revolves around him anyway! :cool:
klydemorris
04-26-2011, 09:31 PM
Naaaa.... feeding that ego could only lead to over pressure and bursting.
I noticed that you ducked out of that little lunch at I-X thus demonstrating that you are indeed an anti-social [CENSORED]- which was some of the conversation at said bread-breaking BTW.
the above is like most of your opinions, based on limited and selective data. I have attended three of them since then and have initiated other gatherings. I had a legitimate reason to miss the Ares I-X luncheon.
all they need is for others to teach them what they want to know. Of course that takes understanding, patience and the ability to interact in a friendly way- which I would guess you do not have the time for.
.
Look at my earlier posts, I changed the way I post because of people like you.
I think people like him have done a good thing. You're a smart dude Jim. Those who crave knowledge of the space program could learn from you.
Ever thought about teaching for a living if you decide to change careers?
klydemorris
05-21-2011, 12:45 PM
Look at my earlier posts, I changed the way I post because of people like you.
That's okay... I stopped posting completely because of you alone!
Me2... Me2...Me2... ahhhh my friend, please- I am not the nightmare you seem to take me for. You and I actually agree on some things, the SA-5 for example. I have actually learned many things from you. I once asked you about the Titan IIIC ITL and you responded with a very civil answer. I have even watched and nodded in agreement (often) when you shut down an idiot or two... or a dozen.... anyhow, I (like many) freely admit that you know a universe more than I do about recent and current spaceflight. There is no question in that. I also know full well that you will not change your approach to how you deal with people on the internet- and that is between you and yourself. I just hope that I get the chance to be invited to one of those little get-togethers at some later launch. I'd honestly like to meet you in person and shake your hand. Just to show that I'm not the spawn of satin that you think I am. I'm simply very good at goading people- it's what I get paid to do, (you just get yours for free, and you really goad very well). Frankly I'm sure we would become pals- and you could then feel free to reply to some of my goading with a simple "Go screw yourself Wes." or perhaps a "Pound sand." We'd all smile and have a laugh.
I'm serious.
What do ya' say? Lets plan to get together at some launch event... perhaps the Liberty.
DOH!
Goad alert!
LOL!
Wes
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