House rubber stamps NASA Policy

[Rick]

Here's the breakdown as being reported of the passage of the House Bill as it relates to human space flight for NASA.

Thoughts?

An extra shuttle flight, meaning three flights remain before retirement. The extension was important to Kennedy Space Center, where 8,000 workers anticipate losing jobs when the program ends. But the program costs $200 million per month.

$1.6 billion over three years, rather than Obama's $3.6 billion for that period, to spur development of a commercial rocket.

6.9 billion over three years for development of NASA's next rocket, using the existing workforce for the shuttle and Constellation's Ares rocket "to the extent practicable."

[klydemorris]

ObamaSpace just received a well earned a lethal injection.

This was just another in the line of horrible miscalculations on the part of the Obama Administration. I swear this bunch will not stop dumping classroom-theory social engineering on the American people and having it fed back to them until this academic-in-chief child president is voted out of office

At least Jimmy Carter kept his hands off of the space program.

[Rick]

Agreed. His vision, the way he wanted it, would never have flown. (Pun Intended) For someone who says, why go back to the moon, because we've been there, has no place in forging America's space programs future.

[Me2]

no, it was a lethal injection to Constellation. More of Obamaspace exists in the new policy than CxP.

[Rick]

How so? It's no surprise that Constellation, well, most of it was cut. Obama's dream of commercial space flights budget was cut by two thirds, while giving NASA a go to build an HLV.

I don't see how you arrive at your decision. To me, some of both exist.

[klydemorris]

Agreed. His vision, the way he wanted it, would never have flown. (Pun Intended) For someone who says, why go back to the moon, because we've been there, has no place in forging America's space programs future.

right Rick

[klydemorris]

no, it was a lethal injection to Constellation. More of Obamaspace exists in the new policy than CxP.

Just how many of the hearings did you watch Me2? Of the members of Congress who held the hearings all but 5 made statements at one point or another in SUPPORT of Constellation. I know- I watched them ALL, I even transcribed a couple. So how can you even imagine to stretch the result of those hearing into the statement you just made?Your statement here, concerning POR, is TOTALLY incorrect.

You would do well to crawl back under the crack between the carpet and your cube wall and just stay there and look at the three walls, be cause you sure as hell do not have a single clue as to what this process is doing here in DC and you are totally unwilling or unable to learn about it.

Your comments say far more about you than I can, however.

[Rick]

I try and be fair to everyone, I really do. I don't quite understand Jim's viewpoint of this however. The facts do not support his conclusions, as vague as they are.

[klydemorris]

Part of his problem is Constellation phobia- spread via the internet. The fact is that the Senate bill IS in large part Constellation without the name. The bill does not even direct the cancellation of the Ares I. It in fact stands silent on its continuation. Does that mean that a manned Ares I will fly- highly unlikely. Does it mean that some other Ares I-X style of vehicle could be developed? The bill does not say yes or no. Does this bill provide funding for another Ares I-X? No- because this bill is not a funding tool.

What has been shaved to a stubble is ObamaSpace. There is only enough of it left in this bill to politically draw ink from Obama's pen. Politically this bill is a solid REBUKE of ObamaSpace and provides little more than a paper smiley face for him to wear while he signs it. The House may trim away even more ObamaSpace in the lame duck session as well.

Watch the Congress- ignore Me2.

[Rick]

Read this:

(Source: Space Politics)

Sen. Jeff Sessions (R-AL) credited his colleague, Sen. Richard Shelby (R-AL), for ensuring that NASA Marshall Space Flight Center would have a leading role in the new exploration plan through the development of an heavy-lift launch vehicle (HLV) in the authorization bill passed by Congress. “We got the best language we could get in the authorization bill,” he told the paper. “We worked hard to get that in; there was a lot of resistance to it.”

That statement is a little curious, since Shelby indicated that he was a little unhappy with the HLV language in the bill. “I remain concerned with the limiting direction set forth on the heavy lift rocket’s design,” he said in a statement last week after the House passed the bill. “NASA must not deliver a rocket that is simply a shuttle without wings. This would not represent a step forward for innovation or for the future of our space program.” (10/6)

My question is, would Marshall be involved in the Obama commercial launch vehicle plan, that has been cut by two thirds?

Note the keyword NASA.

[Rick]

This is an excellent article.

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1706/1

Here's an excerpt:

"The administration sought a sharp break from the past with a new program that emphasized capabilities over destinations, but got a sharp rebuke from Congress. The result is an authorization bill that is a compromise: some support for commercial crew and technology development, but also for an HLV to be developed in the near-term rather than later, as originally proposed."

[klydemorris]

Again- another informed published account that shows Me2 does not know what he is talking about. Which gives me the chance to once again say the words he simply cannot stand, but throws at everyone else as much as he can- Me2... YOU ARE WRONG!

And MSFC (NASA)will get plenty out of the SLS. My only question is how many contractor employees at the assorted centers will get transferred from Constellation and how soon. A lot of those workers saw their dreams of working in the space progran shattered by Obama- and for no good reason other than he and his hand full of bootlickers thought they were politically in the position to pull it off. Some of us saw right away that they'd never get away with it- but the big concern was, from those of us who know how the Congress really works and how much time the process takes, how much damage would be done before the ObamaSpace proposal could be stopped, gutted and turned around. Frankly- that's still in question.

[spacefan]

The Obama presidency is not shaping up too well, so it seems. Considering NASA's recent performance managing Constellation what confidence can anyone have that any sort of HLV will be on shedule and on budget?

[spacefan]

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2010/...work-complete/

It seems that Direct are claiming a victory of sorts.

[klydemorris]

Only history will really tell if the Direct folks got their way or if the final config of the SLS will just happen to look like one of their Jupiter vehicles. IMO what you have here is simply a very logical derivation of the STS stack crossed by a down-sized Ares V rather than an historic brainstorm of the John Houbolt ilk. Yet, if the SLS "looks" ANYTHING like any of the Jupiters, the Direct folks will take as much credit as they can get. Frankly, until they fully disclose the names and positions of all of this so-called secret team of "NASA engineers" who have been said to have been developing these Jupiter boosters, a lot of people who do not get all of their facts from the internet, including me, will remain skepitcial about Direct actually having been the roots for the SLS rather than simple coincidence.

BTW, I'm the head of a secret team of aeronautical engineers who are working on a better design of a new corporate jet... it'll have 2 engines, a "T" tail and winglets. Hey! How about that, our idea was just introduced at NBAA! Please give credit to us.

[Me2]

Again- another informed published account that shows Me2 does not know what he is talking about. Which gives me the chance to once again say the words he simply cannot stand, but throws at everyone else as much as he can- Me2... YOU ARE WRONG!

.

Again, I am shown to be right.

[Me2]

Part of his problem is Constellation phobia- spread via the internet. The fact is that the Senate bill IS in large part Constellation without the name. The bill does not even direct the cancellation of the Ares I. It in fact stands silent on its continuation. Does that mean that a manned Ares I will fly- highly unlikely. Does it mean that some other Ares I-X style of vehicle could be developed? The bill does not say yes or no. Does this bill provide funding for another Ares I-X? No- because this bill is not a funding tool.

What has been shaved to a stubble is ObamaSpace. There is only enough of it left in this bill to politically draw ink from Obama's pen. Politically this bill is a solid REBUKE of ObamaSpace and provides little more than a paper smiley face for him to wear while he signs it. The House may trim away even more ObamaSpace in the lame duck session as well.

Watch the Congress- ignore Me2.

Ignore klyde, he has constellation on the brain and can't see reality.

[Me2]

Part of his problem is Constellation phobia- spread via the internet.

.

It has nothing to do with the internet, I saw Constellation problems daily in person.

[camelopardalis]

Ok me2 You've convinced me now.
Constellation and Ares-I are dead.

But let's google around ...

• Take a break until November 12, 2012
• Find an available well equiped launchpad (39B , just round the corner)
• Find a "new in a box" mobile launcher platform (Didn't I see one next to the VAB?)
• Find a tested solid 5 seg SRB (Promontory, UT)
• Find a second stage efficient gas generator engine (J2X)
• Put a "2012 model" crew module on top (Orion crew module)
• Use radius block stiffeners where applicable !!
• Find a motivated well equiped workforce to put the thing together
• Call it Direct-4.0 (just to make you happy)
• Put Mike Moses and his team in Firing room no 1
• Call Kathy Winters for some dry weather at the cape
• Fly in MacGyver to fix GUCP Problems
• And liftoff ... into an new erra of HSF

[Me2]

• Find an available well equiped launchpad. - It will not be equipped, it will stripped to a bare concrete pyramid.
• Find a "new in a box" mobile launcher platform - See above, it will just be a unfinished tower. No systems, no umbilical arms, no fluid lines, no data lines, etc. It needs another $250 million work in outfitting
• Find a tested solid 5 seg SRB - A couple of firings is not "tested" It needs like 3-5 more firings to be tested for use.
• Find a second stage efficient gas generator engine - wont' be flight ready until 2015
• Use radius block stiffeners where applicable - A bad solution for a bad design
• Find a motivated well equiped workforce to put the thing together -there are many of those on the cape
• Put Mike Moses and his team - see above
• Call Kathy Winters for some dry weather at the cape - works for any launch vehicle.
• And liftoff ... into an new era of HSF
  which is going to be a "2013 model" crew module (Orion crew module) on top of a Delta IV Heavy