NASA needs giant leap over politics

[JimMcDade]

NASA needs giant leap over politics

http://blog.al.com/birmingham-news-c...iant_leap.html

[Me2]

As usual McDade's "My View" is nothing but lies.

A. How are Boeing, ULA, OSC, etc classified as "a new, but untested generation of space companies that are run by a collection of foreign and domestic entrepreneurs"
B. There are no foreign entrepreneurs, unless you call NASA using RSC Energia for Soyuz flights a foreign and domestic entrepreneurs
c. Elon Musk is a US citizen

D. Science is first at NASA, exploration is second. Read the Space Act.
e. Kennedy couldn't care less about "exploration" He just wanted to beat the Soviets.

Just another revisionist tirade

[Rick]

As usual McDade's "My View" is nothing but lies.

A. How are Boeing, ULA, OSC, etc classified as "a new, but untested generation of space companies that are run by a collection of foreign and domestic entrepreneurs"
B. There are no foreign entrepreneurs, unless you call NASA using RSC Energia for Soyuz flights a foreign and domestic entrepreneurs
c. Elon Musk is a US citizen

D. Science is first at NASA, exploration is second. Read the Space Act.
e. Kennedy couldn't care less about "exploration" He just wanted to beat the Soviets.

Just another revisionist tirade

Me2, other than your biased love for EELV, what do you like?

[spacefan]

Historically, the month of October has provided the United States with some of its more shocking jolts.
In October 1929, an unprecedented stock-market crash sent America spiraling down into that devastating era of deprivation which became known as the Great Depression. The U.S. government responded to that crisis by spending billions of dollars on a New Deal economic-revival program.
In October 2008, the U.S. stock market fell five days in a row, the worst week ever, signaling the Great Recession, from which the nation is still attempting to recover. Eight decades after the Great Depression, the government solution was spending trillions of taxpayer dollars on bailouts, economic stimuli and recovery programs that blurred the lines between capitalism and socialism. Big government always seems to respond to any crisis with big spending.

The Great depression was exacerbated by public spending cuts brought on by falling tax receipts, by taking so much money out of circulation private businesses profits fell and unemployment rose which leads to falling tax receipts. The New deal and the bailouts were intended to keep the economy rolling until growth picked up. Mcdade you wouldn't know socialism if it came up and bit you on the ass. FDR and Obama are no socialists neither was John Maynard Keynes whose theories economic stimulus is based on.
Tough economic times combined with a low level of public willingness to sacrifice for space make NASA a sitting duck for the budget ax.

Times are indeed tough and the taxpayer is right to demand value for money.

The Barack Obama administration wants to take basic Earth-orbital human space transportation services away from NASA and turn them over to a new, but untested generation of space companies that are run by a collection of foreign and domestic entrepreneurs.

COTS originated under the Bush administration so thats SpaceX and Orbital Sciences. Commercial crew Boeing, ULA and now ATK and EADS hardly untested.

That proposal raises some serious national security, political and other issues, so a stalemate with Congress has put NASA's future in limbo.

Congress and the big defense contractors are ticked off that they are losing their pork and cost+ contracts, though i fail to see what national security issues.

The arguments have ripped the space exploration advocacy community apart. Traditional aerospace contractors such as Boeing, Lockheed Martin and ATK are flagship American companies that will surely lose if NASA is compelled to pay someone like South African Internet millionaire Elon Musk's SpaceX company for launch services.

Yeah they sure have that old military industrial complex thing going on but if they cant compete they shouldn't get the business. If musk can do the same job cheaper its a no brainer.

Musk is a significant campaign contributor to U.S. political candidates -- giving 10 times more to Democrats than Republicans -- and that has raised some eyebrows in political and space industry circles.

I guess that makes him a democrat. It would be interesting to know which politicians the big defence contractors donate to.

[Me2]

Me2, other than your biased love for EELV, what do you like?

Not biased, Taurus and Falcon are not EELV. I will support an RLV if the flight rates warrant it.

I use to think the shuttle was the best thing ever. But I started working space transportation architectures for the USAF and also worked payload integration and saw the flaws. Also, I saw the waste of resources at MSFC. I was working CxP before the ESAS. And when ESAS came out, I saw the waste of resources that it was.

[Rick]

Not biased, Taurus and Falcon are not EELV. I will support an RLV if the flight rates warrant it.

I use to think the shuttle was the best thing ever. But I started working space transportation architectures for the USAF and also worked payload integration and saw the flaws. Also, I saw the waste of resources at MSFC. I was working CxP before the ESAS. And when ESAS came out, I saw the waste of resources that it was.

I guess the question is then how much does one pay to put humans into space, in correlation with safety.

Like I said in another post, the space program is in reverse gear. It's 2011, and we're still deciding how to people in LEO.

#Fail

[spacefan]

There is always Soyuz.

[Rick]

No thanks! I'd rather take a slow boat to China.

[klydemorris]

No thanks! I'd rather take a slow boat to China.

The Russians just jacked up the seat price for Soyuz once more- now it's up to $64M per seat.

[Rick]

That's some bargain. Bolden responded by indicating that private companies need to fill the gap. What do you think?

[JimMcDade]

The Obama administration really opened up a can of worms when it decided to hand-off NASA program evaluation and planning to political "friendlies" who supported the '08 campaign. The policy that emerged was primarily aimed at tearing down anything associate with the "Bush" years. Sadly, the political realities of how major space projects are conceived and sustained were ignored while the ax came down on Constellation. Objectivity- on all sides concerned - is long gone.

[JimMcDade]

Musk is a South African citizen. His mother was Canadian, so he was able to take advantage of a Canadian law that allowed his to attend college there. He transferred to the U of Pennsylvania from there. He once applied for Canadian citizenship, but he bristles when questioned about his citizenship. He attacked a NY Times reporter ( Randall Stross) who brought up his citizenship, calling her an idiot. He is overly sensitive about not being a US citizen.

[spacefan]

Musk is a South African citizen. His mother was Canadian, so he was able to take advantage of a Canadian law that allowed his to attend college there. He transferred to the U of Pennsylvania from there. He once applied for Canadian citizenship, but he bristles when questioned about his citizenship. He attacked a NY Times reporter ( Randall Stross) who brought up his citizenship, calling her an idiot. He is overly sensitive about not being a US citizen.

Whats the deal McDade you got a problem with non americans? Does it really matter where the man was born given that the US is a nation of immigrants who made good.

[klydemorris]

Here's what it boils dowm to- Obama, and those of his ilk (I have a brother of the exact same mind-set, perhaps because he attended the exact same colleges) are people who are embarrassed by ANYTHING thatreflects United States greatness. They avoid it like vampires avoid mirrors and they will rip whatever does it- down. To them, a towering rocket roaring into the sky that says "UNITED STATES" up the side is highly embarrassing. NASA's past accomplishments are likewise embarassing. Obama wants to strangle the glory from the US space program while he has the chance. Most of us see US astronauts forced to ride on Soyuz as a disgrace and a failure in US space policy and political planning- but to those of Obama's ilk, it is a gleeful justice. Manned spaceflight is just one of the areas where the Obama method is being used to mute symbols of United States greatness- his administration is working just as fast as they can to rip down just as much as they can. And before someone jumps on me for being an Obama hater- le'me say that frigging Bush set the stage for all of this.

[Rick]

Partially. Bush at least put forward a program that had goals. Even a name.

[spacefan]

Problem is Obama gave all the money to the banks. That and funding your overseas empire has left precious little for anything else, a shame really.

[Rick]

Problem is Obama gave all the money to the banks. That and funding your overseas empire has left precious little for anything else, a shame really.

Overseas empire? What on earth are you talking about.

The hard truth of the matter is Obama killed a program with purpose. Don't tell me about funding, there's money available.

I can't wait till the US lands on an asteroid! What's the name of Obama's lack of vision? There is none.

[Rick]

Whats the deal McDade you got a problem with non americans? Does it really matter where the man was born given that the US is a nation of immigrants who made good.

Why is it that there are so many people that don't have the courtesy to address others by their first names? I can think of three as I write this.

Is that how they speak to everyone, or only those they disagree with to make a point?

To be fair, just call me Fischer for now on.

[spacefan]

I do apologise Mr Fischer I shall henceforth address McDade as Mr McDade, your good self as Mr Fischer and Klydemorris as Mr Antboy. Now Mr Fischer as civility has been restored to this thread perhaps Mr MacDade could enlighten us as to why he raised the issue of Mr Elon Musk's nationality as a negative.

[Rick]

LOL!!! You forgot the period after MR . :-)