Myth Busters - DIRECT Launch (ATK)

[Rick]

There is supposedly something "big" coming in the next few months. Let's just see what it is!

I am not sure why they would wait a few months, as it would probably be too late, not that it isn't already.

[klydemorris]

I get a kick out of these cyber rumor's about something "BIG." As I recall, there was one a while back where it was said that John Young said that something big was going to take place and an announcement would take place killing the Ares I on May 23rd... 2007. Which... looking at the calandar... came... and went... and the Ares I is still alive. Same thing for Direct. My guess is if they had a big card, they'd simply play it rather than telegraph it. Personally- I smirk at rumors and only take stock of funding and hardware.

Funding and Hardware folks- that's what talks.

[Rick]

Exactly, unless they are waiting until next year for the new administration. One of the problems I see what that strategy is that there is no guarantee that the new administration is going to think any differently, even with a new NASA administrator.

[JimMcDade]

A little off-the-hip prophecy here- I have a bad feeling that we may see most of NASA's Project Constellation appropriations shifted to Obama's federal pre-school program, as Obama had originally planned, and other social engineering projects. None of us, either pro-Direct or pro-Ares people, will be very happy after the Shuttle program is given an open-ended extension.

Obama will remind us that he is a big Star Trek fan and he will subsequently appoint Story Musgrave to head NASA . We HSF advocates will all have to go back to reading books about the Apollo years in order to satisfy our craving for real space adventure. Meanwhile, NASA will return to focusing on the ISS and robotic exploration. Most of the action will be inside the university science centers where PhDs and other members of the scientific-technological elite will gratefully spend new grant monies that will serve as reward for their support of the anti-HSF Democrat party philosophy. President Obama and the Legislative branch will cheerfully pay the Russians fare for the occasional astronaut trip when the STS is unable to perform.

[Rick]

Jim, I pray you are wrong.

[klydemorris]

Just my own opinion here... I, personally, think that if Obama is elected, he'll be so drown in the job that, much like Carter, before he can even get around to NASA his one and only term will be over. Frankly, unless he's stumping in Florida, spaceflight is way down his list of stuff to screw up. Obama will find it's much easier to leave NASA alone than to get deeply intangled in mucking it up- and Obama will ALWAYS go the easy route.

McCain, who has had a taste of how unpopular it is to hint at cutting up NASA, will likely also keep hands off.

Also- look ahead the the off-year election in 2010, when the first wave of Obama back-lash could begin- what happens in the Congress is way more important than the Whitehouse.

Again- as a registered Independent, That's how I see it.

[Rick]

Very well said, and what you envision would be tolerable to me.

[jkumpire]

Men,

I think (rather, I know) an Obama presidency will be a disaster beyond all description for our country. But I would not just assume that means he kills NASA as you suggest. The FL and MD senators are high enough in the hierarchy to keep some kind of manned space program going.

If nothing else, he will keep it going as an item of prestige, like the Soviets did with their program in the 60's and 70's. Since as a Marxist he understands how valuable propaganda is, he can't turn us into North Korea. But he can turn NASA into a Fascist symbol of government efficiency, which is what I think he will try to do. And before you ask, Marxist and Fascist are not opposite terms, but rather complimentary ones, just different train stations on the path to ugliness.

[Me2]

A little off-the-hip prophecy here- I have a bad feeling that we may see most of NASA's Project Constellation appropriations shifted to Obama's federal pre-school program, as Obama had originally planned, and other social engineering projects. None of us, either pro-Direct or pro-Ares people, will be very happy after the Shuttle program is given an open-ended extension.

Obama will remind us that he is a big Star Trek fan and he will subsequently appoint Story Musgrave to head NASA . We HSF advocates will all have to go back to reading books about the Apollo years in order to satisfy our craving for real space adventure. Meanwhile, NASA will return to focusing on the ISS and robotic exploration. Most of the action will be inside the university science centers where PhDs and other members of the scientific-technological elite will gratefully spend new grant monies .

1. As long as there isn't an Ares I, then it is ok. Ares I would be a boat anchor around the neck of NASA and the continuation of it would do more damage than its cancellation. The very idea that Ares I is NASA's launch vehicle for the next 40 years is revolving. Yes, 40 years, that is what all the cost numbers are based on. Now you realize why it will be a boat anchor, it won't be used for 40 years and its per flight costs will approach the shuttle's

2. The monies would be better spent at university science centers than for overpaid aerospace union workers and contractor executives.

3. HSF is so bloated it needs a kick in the ass. Let it die so that it can be reborn in a better version. Let private industry provide the means to LEO. NASA doesn't need to be in the launch vehicle business

[Rick]

2. The monies would be better spent at university science centers than for overpaid aerospace union workers and contractor executives.

I guess you are not a union man. The old saying comes to mind: "You get what you pay for."

How much less percentage wise would you consider fair for a salary?

[Me2]

I guess you are not a union man. The old saying comes to mind: "You get what you pay for."

How much less percentage wise would you consider fair for a salary?

It has nothing to do with the actual pay but the amount of work for the pay.

[Rick]

Okay, you've peaked my interest. Are you saying they are not working hard enough, or, are they working hard enough but there is not enough work for the pay?

[klydemorris]

I once had a senior airline exec. tell me that no pilot on earth was worth more than $35K per year. I asked him how much I was worth when picking my way through a line of thunderstorms with him in the back. He later left the company on a golden parachute when it went bankrupt and went to another airline- and got another chute.

This bait about pay and worth and who's over-paid, who's uinion and who's not is completely off the point. Rick- don't take the bait- the line leads OT.

The critic may think that HSF os "bloated" and so on... as long as it's not his butt strapped into the vehicle.

[Me2]

The critic may think that HSF os "bloated" and so on... as long as it's not his butt strapped into the vehicle.

There is no "thinking", I know it is bloated. See the waste daily.

Actually, I would trust an ELV more than the shuttle.

Just as I can't say anything about the pay of an airline pilot, you don't have the knowledge nor experience nor insight about launch ops

[klydemorris]

Let's refrain from cheap personal slurs- Me2 you have NO insight into what I do or do not know about "launch ops" just as we have no real insight into your being the expert that you claim to be- we have only what you've written here. It seems as if anytime someone gets the better of you and your imflamitory statements, you fall back on this nobody knows better than you about "launch ops" line.

If you see the "waste" every day- document it, post it give us facts not just it's there because you say it is. Every big program or project has tons of waste.- so what? What has that to do with the subject of this thread?

You'd trust ELVs more than the shuttle? Okay... so what? What does that have to do with the subject of this thread? NOTHING.

[Rick]

There is no "thinking", I know it is bloated. See the waste daily.

Your opinion is one of thousands that work at KSC and should be judged as such.

[Bob]

There is no "thinking"

There is NO THINKING????

Who else thinks there other than you????

[klydemorris]

The beatings will continue until the thinking stops.

Sorry- couldn't resist...

Okay- everyone back on topic please.

[Rick]

Yes please.

The thread is called Myth Busters - DIRECT Launch (ATK)