Orion Crew Size

[J.McDonald]

In the end, the claims of Me2 and others are examples of someone simply predicting or "revealing" the easily predictable.

No, that's not true.
What I've been referring to is specific claims made by Me2 and others with inside knowledge, which get pounded as being 'baseless' but turn out to be true. Like you, Jim, I was sceptical of these claims to begin with, but I see a pattern.
Everybody could have predicted that Ares would run late and over budget. But it takes a connection within the program to be able to claim, and be proved correct, on specific matters like number of engines, crew size, or launch dates.

What if it turns out that they are right and Ares I is canceled? Would they deserve credit for trying to be whistle-blowers? Absolutely not. Was I wrong to challenge their claims, as presented? Absolutely not.

So... IIUC... detractors should put up and shut up even if they have real information that the program is failing?
Did you ever watch the video about management attitudes at JSC?

The more extreme Ares I detractors have not done enough to be portrayed as heroes. They are not even mildly admirable snitches. If the turn of events goes against Ares I, it should be pointed out that they chose to hide behind anonymous handles while their nation wasted billions of dollars and lost years of potential progress in space exploration. They risked absolutely nothing to stop a national tragedy in the making.

This is an interesting insight into how you view these things, Jim. I don;t know if any of the 'whistleblowers' actually require 'hero' status.
Further, have Danny Deger's comments about management attitudes not made any impression on you whatsoever? His is not an isolated case.

[JimMcDade]

Me2, Keep the arrogant, personal insults coming. Your behavior is revealing. It does not matter if I am in the business or outside of the business. The many professional brokers who bought into Madoff were "in the business", and they fell hook, line, and sinker. The engineers behind many an engineering disaster were certainly "in the business". Sometimes, it takes a complete outsider to see what should be obvious to the insiders. Fact checking is often a business independent process. Sometimes, it is a nobody that stumbles onto the truth. Further, we still don't know if you are in the business since you hide behind a clever handle.

The background experience of the Saturn vehicle development teams was more diverse and substantial than that of many in the Ares I and Ares V teams. Those engineers certainly had the opportunity to worked on a greater variety of engines and designs in their day. Rocket building was already an established industry when the Saturn V contracts were let. The big differences with Saturn V were primarily scalar in nature.

Now, let's look at the actual story at hand. The Orion crew compliment reduction story is actually unrelated to the power or structural strength of Ares I. This fact is contrary to any perception that you possess bona fide information prior to the press releases. When did you mention parachutes and Orion impact velocity with two parachutes? This recent development is also being misrepresented by the anti-Ares conspiracy theorists as they desperately attempt to sustain their cherished hoax. It's just more misinformation from the rag-tag propaganda ministry of Ares I haters.

The Orion weight problem (a mere 200 pounds) has no connection whatsoever to the Ares I. The weight issue is connected to the desire to return to earth on land with the parachutes in the event that only two of the three parachutes deploy.

A further fact check: Obviously, Orion has NOT been permanently limited to a crew compliment of four. The parachute issue will continue to be worked according to Orion program leader Jeff Hanley.