To Boldly Go

[spacefan]

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...a120046D63.DTL

Nasa administrator Charles Bolden indicated that he wants to see humans on mars within his lifetime as he's 62 yrs old already and Nasa plans to visit mars some time in the thirties he's really cutting it fine.

He's stated admiration for his former shuttle crewmate franklin chang Diaz Vasimr plasma rockets.

Given that the nation currently struggles putting humans back on the moon with well understood technology, what is the likelyhood of a true interplanetary spaceship using VASIMR rockets happening any time soon? And what other ways could be taken to get to mars within Charlies lifetime?

[JimMcDade]

I was very disappointed with Charlie's comments today.

"We cannot continue to survive on the path that we are on right now," Bolden told NASA employees in a televised speech earlier Tuesday. What the heck does that mean? Why am I hearing "Cant' do" as opposed to "Can do!"? It sounds like Obama has already told him that NASA is going to have to live on a smaller budget.

Some of his comments about his tendency to cry and his plans to talk about God with Muslims, Buddhists, and people of all faiths were more than a little weird.

I would rather hear the NASA administrator talk about the agency working as a team. I would like to hear him talk about his vision of our space future.

It was all too "touchy-feely" for me. I was not inspired.

[spacefan]

I was very disappointed with Charlie's comments today.

"We cannot continue to survive on the path that we are on right now," Bolden told NASA employees in a televised speech earlier Tuesday. What the heck does that mean? Why am I hearing "Cant' do" as opposed to "Can do!"? It sounds like Obama has already told him that NASA is going to have to live on a smaller budget.

Some of his comments about his tendency to cry and his plans to talk about God with Muslims, Buddhists, and people of all faiths were more than a little weird.

I would rather hear the NASA administrator talk about the agency working as a team. I would like to hear him talk about his vision of our space future.

It was all too "touchy-feely" for me. I was not inspired.

That is the impression i'm getting that we are going to live through a period of fiscal restraint after the present financial crisis. Assume for the sake of argument constellation is off the cards right now. How would you then go about trying to fulfill the VSE and get to mars in charlies lifetime on a cut price budget?

The above is an open question to all members giving you a chance to sell your favourite alternative architechture (as if you needed it).

[J.McDonald]

I was very disappointed with Charlie's comments today.

"We cannot continue to survive on the path that we are on right now," Bolden told NASA employees in a televised speech earlier Tuesday. What the heck does that mean? Why am I hearing "Cant' do" as opposed to "Can do!"? It sounds like Obama has already told him that NASA is going to have to live on a smaller budget.

Would you prefer he say "full steam ahead" until the money runs out?

[Rick]

Full steam ahead would probably gather more funding.

Personally, I'm scared for the future of human spaceflight, not to mention my employment in the NASA family.

[spacefan]

Full steam ahead would probably gather more funding.

Personally, I'm scared for the future of human spaceflight, not to mention my employment in the NASA family.

Rick are there any rumours going around Boeing, you do seem quite pesimistic last few posts.

[spacefan]

What about going with an Ares iv and Ares v architechture instead of ares 1. As there is greater congruance between crew and cargo LV's you would save on development albeit suffering greater operational costs but would also enjoy greater economies of scale to help offset this cost.

Another advantage would be you could roll out any future upgrades onto the cargo version for flight testing before introducing them into the crew version this would help reduce costs over the longterm.

"Assume for the sake of argument constellation is off the cards right now. How would you then go about trying to fulfill the VSE and get to mars in charlies lifetime on a cut price budget?

The above is an open question to all members giving you a chance to sell your favourite alternative architechture (as if you needed it)."

Anyone fancy having a pop at the above question could direct, eelv's or the SDLV side mounted HLV get charlie his man on mars before he dies and if so how?

[klydemorris]

Among very many, there was one really clear, real forceful and very honest and true statement made by the new administrator that really caught my ear and correctly sums up the path ahead- yet a lot of people seem to have listened right past it even though "Charlie" (as he says he wants to be called) was very clear in making it... that statement was "I work for the President."

And I predict that the "president" will soon send us off to BOLDLY GO... no place. He will formulate some ineffectual program to look at the earth... period. It requires lower funding, far less people, is devoid of the chance for human tragidy in flight and will produce results that can be manipulated to the political advantage of Obama's base voters. He does not "cancel" or eliminate NASA- he simply neuters it.

THAT, is where we're going to boldly "go."

[Me2]

What about going with an Ares iv and Ares v architechture instead of ares 1.

Too expensive

[spacefan]

Among very many, there was one really clear, real forceful and very honest and true statement made by the new administrator that really caught my ear and correctly sums up the path ahead- yet a lot of people seem to have listened right past it even though "Charlie" (as he says he wants to be called) was very clear in making it... that statement was "I work for the President."

And I predict that the "president" will soon send us off to BOLDLY GO... no place. He will formulate some ineffectual program to look at the earth... period. It requires lower funding, far less people, is devoid of the chance for human tragidy in flight and will produce results that can be manipulated to the political advantage of Obama's base voters. He does not "cancel" or eliminate NASA- he simply neuters it.

THAT, is where we're going to boldly "go."

As usual you waste no oportunity for blatant political axe grinding. This is the way i see it, the current architecture is the best in terms of capability it offers than any of its rivals there is one big problem the cost to develop it.

The truth is a human spaceflight program is a luxury item. In the era of fiscal restraint that looks to likely after the current financial crisis NASA will have to tighten thier belts same as other parts of government. However, I have to reject your pessimistic prediction. You are really pre-empting what Augustine has got to say he'll give Obama a number of options. Obama will decide based on what he wants to do and what the nation can afford. But do you really think that ANY president is going to take the moon away on the 40th anniversary of the Apollo landings, not if he wants re-election he won't. You might not get constellation but whatever you get will be the envy of every other spacefaring nations.

I predict that nasa will put research into new technologies much higher on the agenda than previously. RLV's, very high Isp propulsion systems, simulated gravity and space construction techniques the very foundations of an interplanetary civilisation can we do it - YES WE CAN.

[spacefan]

Too expensive

Will your favourite architecture get you to mars any time soon.

Don't be shy, heres your chance to sell everyone on the EELV option.

[Me2]

"We cannot continue to survive on the path that we are on right now," Bolden told NASA employees in a televised speech earlier Tuesday. What the heck does that mean? Why am I hearing "Cant' do" as opposed to "Can do!"?

Because Griffin's folly, the ESAS implementation of the VSE, is too expensive. It never was, even under Bush. Griffin assumed he would get budget increases for his pet projects instead of designing an architecture around the budget.

The ESAS was a pipe dream from the get go.

"Can do" i.e. Damn the costs, full speed ahead is not a viable plan

This has nothing to do with Obama or Bush. 32 billion dollars to develop a launch vehicle that duplicates existing capabilities is one of the problems. Especially when ULA (and NASA) says they can do it for 1.5 billion.

[spacefan]

Because Griffin's folly, the ESAS implementation of the VSE, is too expensive. It never was, even under Bush. Griffin assumed he would get budget increases for his pet projects instead of designing an architecture around the budget.

The ESAS was a pipe dream from the get go.

"Can do" i.e. Damn the costs, full speed ahead is not a viable plan

This has nothing to do with Obama or Bush. 32 billion dollars to develop a launch vehicle that duplicates existing capabilities is one of the problems. Especially when ULA (and NASA) says they can do it for 1.5 billion.

That appears to be a considerable discrepency so much for Ares1 how do EELV's square up to Ares5.

[Rick]

I disagree Me2. The President is focused on climate change (used to be called Global Warming) and earth sciences.

I don't think any vehicle that had made it this far will be going anywhere outside LEO. That is the shame of the whole thing, even though when he was in FL, he told a different story.

Spacefan, I don't think KlydeMorris is knocking the President, he is scrutinizing the Presidents lack of interest in Human Spaceflight.

Yes, Charlie Bolden said we should go to Mars. Having said that, there is much less a plan as there was last week. That is my fear, not a rumor I am hearing.

[spacefan]

Rick I'd like to answer some of your points as follows

I disagree Me2. The President is focused on climate change (used to be called Global Warming) and earth sciences.

As he most definately should be. (See Man made Climate Change Fact or Fantasy thread)

I don't think any vehicle that had made it this far will be going anywhere outside LEO. That is the shame of the whole thing, even though when he was in FL, he told a different story.

I think you may be pre-empting augustine. I think US is going beyond LEO maybe
not with the current architecture.

Spacefan, I don't think KlydeMorris is knocking the President, he is scrutinizing the Presidents lack of interest in Human Spaceflight

No i think Klydemorris would find something to bash Obama about.

Yes, Charlie Bolden said we should go to Mars. Having said that, there is much less a plan as there was last week. That is my fear, not a rumor I am hearing.

Only time will tell but as he's been in the job only a few days you might want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

[klydemorris]

Sure- I'm bashing President Obama... I "bashed" President Bush too.. the only differance being that President Bush actually read what I wrote... and drew. I'm a equal opportunity basher... that's my job.

I'm also pointing out the direction in which I most fear this is all likely to go. Some of you may not want to hear it- that's is not my problem.

Additionally, let us remember always that the funding is everything and that is done, largely, in the Congress and not the office of the President. The president does, however, have other influances that can be highly effective in blocking or reducing funding.

Obama, it was said by the new NASA administrator, told him to "...make it the way it was when I was a kid sitting on my uncle's shoulders watching the Apollo astronauts welcomed home." That is encouraging.

We will see.

[Me2]

That appears to be a considerable discrepency so much for Ares1 how do EELV's square up to Ares5.

It all depends on the architecture. Some say heavy lift is not needed with propellant depots.

Or Ares V can continue development with the money saved by using an EELV as a CLV. J-2X development can continue since it is the only thing in common with Ares 5

[Me2]

I disagree Me2. The President is focused on climate change (used to be called Global Warming) and earth sciences.

Where is that documented in direction to NASA? VSE is still the law of the land.

[Rick]

As he most definately should be. (See Man made Climate Change Fact or Fantasy thread) .

Hmm, my humble opinion is that it's not NASA's responsibility to drive global warming issue reconciliation. What does NASA stand for?

With the most due respect, I've read that thread, and as a person that does not agree with Al Gore, I'll leave it at that.

I don't think any vehicle that had made it this far will be going anywhere outside LEO. That is the shame of the whole thing, even though when he was in FL, he told a different story.

I think you may be pre-empting augustine. I think US is going beyond LEO maybe
not with the current architecture.

I hope you are right there. Why is it though I am getting more nervous each week though...hmmm... I don't care how we get out of LEO as long as we do.

Spacefan, I don't think KlydeMorris is knocking the President, he is scrutinizing the Presidents lack of interest in Human Spaceflight

No i think Klydemorris would find something to bash Obama about.

This is out of scope for the thread. Everyone has an opinion, and yours and his are both welcome, whatever it might be.

Yes, Charlie Bolden said we should go to Mars. Having said that, there is much less a plan as there was last week. That is my fear, not a rumor I am hearing.

Only time will tell but as he's been in the job only a few days you might want to give him the benefit of the doubt.

Hopefully the new Administrator will speak again SOON with more of a direction for his employees to follow. Mars is a great destination. How do we get there, bypass the moon, go to asteroids first, go directly to Mars, send more rovers?

An inquiring mind wants to know.

[Rick]

It all depends on the architecture. Some say heavy lift is not needed with propellant depots.

Or Ares V can continue development with the money saved by using an EELV as a CLV. J-2X development can continue since it is the only thing in common with Ares 5

Interesting concept.